#openmoko
02 January 2008
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23:42 <****> thseiler_: No, the message is, that by using XHTML+CSS+JS and still having the fine-grained, more powerful API below it would make for much more applications being developed. This way it is an opt-in: You get yourself an OpenMoko but are closed to software others write for you. XML+JS is open to power-users as well. And I suggest, that the more than 2000 Yahoo Widgets, the more than 4000 Firefox extensions would not exist if they would have gone
23:42 <****> a C++ (or C) toolkit . The magic lies within the ease of XML and the ease of JS.
23:42 <****> AJOSF: ok, got it, we need both
23:43 <****> Also such things are much more easily skinnable.
23:43 <****> Yup.
23:44 <****> there is openmoko browser (css + xhtml)
23:45 <****> all it needs is tight integration into the framework
23:45 <****> no JS?
23:46 <****> Basically it would need a JS interpreter, that is integrated tightley into the framework, giving access to lower-level API stuff.
23:46 <****> right
23:46 <****> Like the lower-level API would deliver services and the JS would process the results of it.
23:46 <****> it also needs callback upon interesting events
23:46 <****> AJOSF: write a fast, optimised JS interpreter, and lots of people will love you.
23:46 <****> sure
23:46 <****> that can be registere
23:46 <****> and timers
23:47 <****> SpeedEvil: Maybe it did not shine through: All I can do is Python, XML, JS, CSS, SQL (and LDAP) ;-)
23:47 <****> I am not a programmer. I am a power-user.
23:47 <****> we would probably need an interpreter per widget
23:47 <****> that uses probably a lot ressources.
23:47 <****> thseiler_: I think that could be done without an interpreter per widget.
23:47 <****> but it can be done, no question about it.
23:48 <****> AJOSF: how ?
23:48 <****> Just a question on the carefgul layout behind the context-switching, I guess. But I am not a pro in this respect
23:48 <****> Yahoo widgets have a seperate engine per widget. But tha's only Yahoo widgets.
23:48 <****> Other widget engines do it in one process.
23:48 <****> Forgot which. Read an article on this two years ago
23:49 <****> ok will go and google some articles about it...
23:49 <****> Mozilla has a single interpeter too. Still, all of Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. is being written with what they once called XPFE: XUL (XML), CSS, JS (and the libraries, that you can access from JS, called XPCOM)
23:50 <****> thseiler_: It may have been in the german magazine c't
23:50 <****> Check out for Konfabulator (abandoned, as it seems)
23:50 <****> No, not Konfabulator, that is now Yahoo widgets
23:50 <****> I meant: Kapsules
23:51 <****> ok, thanks
23:52 <****> it would be crucial to have a good d-bus to js bridge
23:53 <****> thseiler_: Absolutley!
23:53 <****> That would be a dream, if implemented well.
23:53 <****> then we would not need to come up with separate api's for telephony, sms, wifi, etc but just use the underlying dbus api in js
23:53 <****> On KDE they have now KROSS. I did not use it, yet, but I am eager to test it out, once I have my Linux desktop-system set up.
23:54 <****> i think i can finally see what you are hinting at :-)
23:54 <****> thseiler_: sure
23:54 <****> ;)
23:54 <****> But I am not talking about widgets. More about the way the new Web-Applications are being envisualized.
23:56 <****> there is however a think that i fear: animations
23:56 <****> suppose you want to implement a simple fade in
23:56 <****> as seen on iphone
23:56 <****> how would you do that on XHTML?
23:58 <****> is there a css property like alpha ?
23:58 <****> thseiler_: That depends on browser-implementations
23:58 <****> Check those Ajax toolkits. They all have fades
23:58 * thseiler_ can't hide longer that he has no idea bout webprogramming
23:59 <****> But yes, there is alpha in the CSS standard, if I remember correctly
23:59 <****> thseiler_: no problem
23:59 <****> I got no clue about C++ (and I still hope, that I can avoid C++)
--- Log closed Thu Jan 03 00:00:09 2008
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