#perl
27 October 2007
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03:18 <****> CS should be an optional course
03:18 <****> That definitely seems like a disturbing Freudian slip when I read back, but believe me, I make a couple of these a day, so it was bound to be embarrassing one of these times :P
03:18 <****> and they should have a CS for programmers course
03:18 <****> but then again, having a course give me free marks is nice
03:19 <****> jagerman, I'm just concerned that I'd be bored, y'know, doing things the long way, when the language that puts the food on the table for me is all about the opposite. :)
03:19 <****> Metaxy_FW: Think understanding the opposite sex is hard? Try understanding someone with a financial background who thinks programming is like using Excel.
03:19 <****> jawnsy: Other than Comp. Sci. and Cog. Sci., I don't think any programmes require CS.
03:19 <****> apeiron: you could talk to the department head about doing research to get a degree.
03:19 <****> pravus, hmm.
03:20 <****> jagerman: Engineering does.
03:20 <****> jagerman: EE here requires two CS courses (ES 036 and CS 037)
03:20 <****> I've had clients, but they were all either so smart and computer literate (e.g., a 4.0 GPA Physics major at Berkeley who used to write Java for fun) or so willing to let me make the judgments that it was a lot easier than the stereotypical client from hell.
03:20 <****> apeiron: while i understand your concerns over the merits of a CS degree, that piece of paper can help in the long run ;)
03:20 <****> I don't expect this run to last for much longer ;)
03:21 <****> *cough* rationalization.
03:21 <****> pravus, I guess it may make my boss more inclined to give me a raise; I already have what is quite possibly the best job I could hope to get. I telecommute and write Perl.
03:21 <****> someone help me find a 1000 mAh LGLP-AFXM battery
03:21 <****> apeiron: I used to think that
03:22 <****> apeiron: Um... are you real? ;)
03:22 <****> jagerman, Burnout, my friend.
03:22 <****> apeiron: I'm not saying you won't be happy in it much longer than I was
03:22 * pravus has a so-so job...
03:22 <****> Metaxy_FW, I've been asking myself that since I've been hired.
03:22 <****> Metaxy_FW: Well, good luck if you ever run into a client who wants to be able to download your relational database of a few thousand records into an Excel spreadsheet
03:22 <****> apeiron: It wasn't that so much as getting sick of, really, having a boss.
03:22 <****> Most coders spend 5 and a half hours a day on Digg or some equivalent. Do you get to work as little as you would in an office environment?
03:22 <****> jagerman, Ahh.
03:23 <****> apeiron: Even if I was my own boss, I'd still be beholden to customers buying things from me.
03:23 <****> Metaxy_FW: if i have something i want to work on, i actually shut everything else out
03:23 <****> jagerman, So, what you're saying is... you don't want to work? :P
03:23 <****> i haven't done much at work this week besides work on my new module
03:23 <****> That's the real trick... it's not keeping the original customers, but finding other people who think you're the cat's pajamas
03:23 <****> Metaxy_FW, shrug. I do what I'm told. I'm still new, so it's not too demanding.
03:23 <****> and damn it's been nice
03:23 <****> apeiron: No, I want to do cutting edge, theoretical work (in Economics, actually), not churning out a product for someone.
03:24 <****> I think I want to be a freelance bum
03:24 <****> jagerman, Ah.
03:24 <****> Metaxy_FW, I imagine that once I'm more familiar with the product, I'll be asked to do more.
03:24 <****> apeiron: Unfortunately, commercial programming rarely involves really cutting edge, possibly-zero-return stuff.
03:24 <****> jagerman, True.
03:25 <****> apeiron: Mm.
03:25 <****> apeiron: Google, mind you, does do that 20% thing.
03:25 <****> jagerman, 20% thing?
03:25 <****> apeiron: They allow you to spend 20% of your time pursuing anything you want
03:26 <****> Within reason, of course; you can't just goof off playing computer games.
03:26 <****> lol
03:26 <****> That's not quite it.
03:26 <****> You can work on your own /projects/ for 20%.
03:26 <****> And Google owns them.
03:26 <****> that's only an hour and a half a day (assuming an 8 hour work day)
03:26 <****> Google News and Orkut both came from those.
03:26 <****> jawnsy: I think it's typically a day a week
03:27 <****> Metaxy_FW, By Google News, do you mean their horrid Usenet interface?
03:27 <****> work weeks are 5 days per week. 20% would be 1 day.
03:27 <****> Trust me, if I could get paid to do some wild and crazy idea for the company, I think I'd cry.
03:27 <****> i know a guy that gets the same thing, basically.
03:27 <****> apeiron: No, their amazing news aggregator.
03:27 <****> Metaxy_FW, Ahh.
03:27 <****> news.google.com
03:27 <****> Their usenet interface makes me sad.
03:27 <****> It's so easy to completely ruin things. =\
03:27 <****> Usenet is a dinosaur.
03:27 <****> pfft.
03:27 <****> So is TCP. :P
03:27 <****> Their usenet interface probably also came out of it
03:28 <****> Usenet was the original forum
03:28 <****> And IRC for that matter!
03:28 <****> usenet is a raptor
03:28 <****> it's a dinosaur... but it kicks ass
03:28 <****> jagerman, yick
03:28 <****> apeiron: I, uh... agree :P
03:28 <****> Plus, unlike TCP, Usenet isn't a necessary evil.
03:28 <****> Forums are quite nice.
03:28 <****> AOL killed usenet
03:28 <****> I wouldn't call Usenet an evil.
03:28 <****> (of course, I also have a ginormous kill file...)
03:28 <****> apeiron: There's all sorts of useless shit as a result, I'm sure, but it really gives people a chance to go beyond the typical 9-5 crap.
03:29 <****> jagerman, nodnod
03:29 <****> Forums remind me of the original BBSes pre-networking
03:29 <****> Usenet was the best networked BBS out there.
03:29 <****> was? is.
03:29 * jagerman mentions the Gentoo forums and snickers
03:29 <****> easynews++
03:29 <****> It's just... ugh.
03:30 <****> It's so lo-fi.
03:30 <****> That's the point!
03:30 <****> Plaintext, honestly?
03:30 <****> Like IRC.
03:30 <****> Like IM.
03:30 <****> "Let's have a contest to see who can make the longest CFLAGS with no repeated options!"
03:30 <****> IM is full of all sorts of garbage these days
03:30 <****> jagerman, alias cc cc -std=c99 -Wall -W -Wformat-nonliteral -Wcast-align -Wpointer-arith -Wbad-function-cast -Wmissing-prototypes -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Winline -Wundef -Wnested-externs -Wcast-qual -Wshadow -Wwrite-strings -Wunused -Wfloat-equal -pedantic -ansi -Wbad-function-cast -Wmissing-declarations -Wmissing-prototypes -Wnested-externs -Wold-style-definition -Wstrict-prototypes ...
03:30 <****> ... -Wdeclaration-after-statement
03:30 * apeiron coughs.
03:31 <****> jagerman, I use bitlbee for personal IM, so I don't have to deal with that nonsense.
03:31 <****> Usenet has pictures... That's what uuencoding is for. :)
03:31 <****> IRC I consider outdated too. All 3 major IM services and Jabber have file transfer (without ridiculous workarounds like UUEncode), images in the window, and moderately-to-well integrated voice and video.
03:31 <****> snap-l, yenc, please.
03:31 <****> Who wants images, video, and voice? I just want to use my language to communicate.
03:32 <****> apeiron: Couldn't you just -Wall and get it over with?
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