#perl
27 October 2007
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03:32 <****> apeiron: Back when I was young, we used to cut and paste our UU encoded messages into text files to uudecode them, and we LIKED it.
03:32 <****> But then I'm a rather old fashioned command-line guy...
03:32 <****> jagerman, No.
03:32 <****> But Usenet doesn't even let you italicize, does it?
03:32 <****> That's a standard aspect of written English.
03:32 <****> jagerman, Contrary to popular belief, -Wall does *not* get you all options.
03:32 <****> I must be missing something with gaim, then, because I don't see where the group chat fits in
03:32 <****> Metaxy_FW: That's the point.
03:32 <****> Metaxy_FW, No, it's not.
03:32 <****> i don't think i ever liked pasting to uuencode, but i tolerated it
03:32 <****> Italics has nothing to do with language.
03:32 <****> Now, typography, yes, but not grammar or orthography.
03:33 <****> Sure it does, it makes up for a lack of intonation in written language that exists in spoken language.
03:33 <****> That's a bit like saying tone is not part of language, outside of tonal languages.
03:33 <****> It's, uh, not.
03:34 <****> You're not going to find tone and italicism covered in a grammar manual.
03:34 <****> There's cases, constantly, where the meaning of a sentence is altered dramatically by the words that are stressed, and italics are the standard way to mark this, even in things as uncreative as transcripts.
03:34 <****> I'm not denying that these things are aspects of communication; they are. But the language would exist independent of them.
03:34 <****> I wouldn't expect to, since it isn't grammar.
03:35 <****> sure you can use /italics/ on usenet. and *bold*, and _underline_
03:35 <****> Hey, my xterm picked up those last two. :)
03:35 <****> Well, irssi did, but yeah.
03:35 <****> The latter two even work in irssi :)
03:35 <****> All three work in Icedove/Thundrebird
03:36 <****> And in slrn, and in mutt with some teaching.
03:36 <****> Now, you can argue that Usenet is still fine for communicating this when need be, with the slashes and all, but it's a horrible hack for a standardized means of world communication.
03:36 <****> they don't "work" in that sense with any newsreader i know, but people know what you mean
03:36 <****> horrible hack?
03:36 <****> anno-, slrn
03:36 <****> I've seen horrible hacks, this doesn't rate
03:36 <****> My ChatZilla picked up all three (it applies the formatting but still shows the punctuation)
03:36 <****> Your terminal needs support, but slrn will format them properly for you. You may have to ask nicely for it, though.
03:36 <****> ChatZilla? Oh dear.
03:36 * Patterner <3 usenet
03:36 <****> apeiron: i see
03:36 <****> jagerman: Better than mirc.
03:37 <****> I only go on IRC like once a month.
03:37 <****> Metaxy_FW: And worse than irssi :)
03:37 <****> I ask a question, stay around to answer a few to pay back (if I know enough), and stay for a couple hours, usually getting into a tangental debate like this ;)
03:37 <****> after 10+ years you get used to things like usenet, irc and stuff
03:37 <****> Dude, I used to ArchWiz a MOO.
03:37 <****> Funny that, tangential debates. :)
03:37 <****> I know my lo-fi.
03:38 <****> It's lame :P
03:38 <****> I'm using Pidgin right now. :)
03:38 <****> I'm /used/ to it, but it still sucks.
03:38 <****> Err, "ArchWiz a MOO"?
03:38 <****> Never heard those terms?
03:38 <****> Nope
03:38 <****> admin a mud?
03:39 <****> It sounds KKKish
03:39 <****> MOO is a particular type of MUD
03:39 <****> And admins on such MUDs were typically called wizards.
03:39 <****> MOO was a late-coming, and by the most advanced variation on MUD, stands for MUD, Object Oriented, and was generally used for social and role-playing games rather than primitive hack and slash.
03:40 <****> Nothing saying you couldn't build that kind of thing with C, though.
03:40 <****> Almost all the code was done in an internal scripting language called MOOCode (elements of Lisp and Pascal), rather than built-in to the server, so it was more flexible than the usual way, where most or all of the game was in C.
03:41 <****> So you could teleport into an editor and alter the game right in your Telnet window.
03:42 <****> And that meant that you could possibly authorise other users to make said changes, without giving them access to the underlying source code.
03:42 <****> Thus you had builders, responsible for content, and coders, responsible for behaviour.
03:42 <****> Second Life is heavily inspired by MOO.
03:43 <****> Well, I should say "advanced behaviour", because you could put bits of behaviour in the world builder, too.
03:44 <****> "Wizards" were the administrators and the Arch-Wizard was the head dude. I had a social MOO (essentially a themeless, gratuitously sophisticated IRC room) called NullMOO with an average traffic of maybe 10 users. The biggest one, and the originator, was LambdaMOO and had 7000 registered users, a book by Julian Dibbell and many articles and academic papers written about it, and so on.
03:44 <****> ugh, just link to foldoc already
03:46 <****> I even noticed an entry in the MLA Style Guide on how to cite MOO exchanges (it seems to have been viewed in academia as one of the technologies likely to bloom into a world-dominating phenomenon like the web in the early 90's)
03:46 <****> I vaguely remember a Zen MOO.
03:47 <****> Metaxy_FW: Second Life get some interesting economics mentions now and then.
03:47 <****> It was on the cover of BusinessWeek a few months ago.
03:48 <****> With the avatar of its first USD millionaire on the cover.
03:48 <****> Business Week pfft. It had an article in The Economist :)
03:48 <****> Yeah, but not the headline ;)
03:48 <****> I'm sure it's had multiple /articles/ in the NYT, Newseek etc.
03:49 <****> One article is better than a BusinessWeek headline (at least to me).
03:49 <****> MOO was kind of funny, because it came at the last possible moment; someone on EFNet #perl called it "90's nostagia for the 70's," since text gaming was already pretty dated.
03:50 <****> And yet it was like, "the future" (dons wraparound sunglasses, cue 90's spacey synth music)
03:51 <****> MUDs have been around since the late 70s though
03:52 <****> and MOO is just a logical outgrowth from that
03:52 <****> That was my point.
03:55 <****> hi guys! is there a way to somehow get a perl script to talk to apache, so that when a user authenticates, and tries to acess a specific web folder that is protected by an .htaccess, if the authenticated user (in perl) matches the authentication required in the .htaccess then the user will be allowed to access that folder
03:56 <****> Insolit: with mod_perl, yes
03:56 <****> sorry for the messy way i made my question
03:56 <****> what do you need perl for?
03:56 <****> according to your specification, it can all be done using apache directives
03:57 <****> Because it's cooler with Perl
03:57 <****> ofer: it can how?
03:58 <****> Insolit: If you have some particular external, perl-based authentication, using mod_perl is probably the best choice.
03:58 <****> Alternatively, you could skip HTTP authentication entirely and build the authentication into your app
03:59 <****> jagerman: but this is to protect the download of files from specific folders
04:00 <****> imagine user1 accesses folder1, but not folder2
04:01 <****> i was thinking in putting an .htacess protecting the folders, only allowing the authorized users to access them
04:01 <****> and so wanted that users that are already logged in the site, and try to download a file from their specific folder, then that download is automatically authorized
04:02 <****> Insolit: If you have mod_perl, you don't need ".htaccess" files at all, you can do all the auth handling yourself.
04:02 <****> otherwise, you use HTTP-based access control, which you don't need Perl for...
04:03 <****> jagerman so putting aside .htaccess, imagine user2 tries to download a file from folder1 (he uses a direct link)
04:03 <****> Insolit: Why do you need Perl? Can't you just update use some authentication backend that some perl program can manipulate?
04:05 <****> mauke: Why did your example of open need "<" when that's the default?
04:05 <****> jagerman: could u tell me how you'd do this yourself?
04:06 <****> Metaxy_FW, Because it's safer to be explicit.
04:06 <****> Metaxy_FW: what was his example?
04:06 <****> apeiron: I think you're an operative from the Python team ;)
04:06 <****> Metaxy_FW, uhm, no.
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