#perl
03 November 2007
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01:15 <****> and it wasn't
01:15 <****> I knew it too
01:15 <****> no one believed me
01:15 * cythrawll flips off the web community
01:15 <****> success and popularity have a quality of its own
01:15 <****> popularity != success
01:15 <****> cythrawll: huh? what wasn't
01:15 <****> I think what happened was better languages for the web adopted rail's architecture
01:15 <****> rmah, the next big thing
01:16 <****> rails can hardly claim to have moved MVC to the web
01:16 <****> there were *lots* of java frameworks that did that
01:16 <****> it made it a buzz word
01:16 <****> rmah: ruby invented closures!
01:16 <****> yeah but those java fameworks all sucked
01:16 <****> cythrawll: only among the perl/php dorks
01:16 <****> and every other useful form of language idiom
01:16 <****> i mean you ever try struts?
01:16 <****> cythrawll: don't you mean "sucks"
01:16 <****> as in, the java frameworks STILL fucking suck
01:17 <****> yeah
01:17 <****> build once, suck everywhere
01:17 <****> don't get me started man, I hate java because I've used it
01:17 <****> I been tryign to figure out a good architecture for work for mvc
01:17 <****> java
01:17 <****> too many damn config files. it's like I'm programming in fucking XML
01:17 <****> keep in mind that I also have the challenge of integrating another language in it as well
01:18 <****> rmah: What problems did you run into with Java? Were you using Eclipse?
01:18 <****> awesomess3: the main problem is verboseness
01:18 <****> it takes like 1000 lines of code/config to do the same thing as 10 lines in perl
01:18 <****> seriouslly
01:18 <****> or 11 lines of php
01:18 <****> rmah: that and strict typing
01:18 <****> and the object bondage. I hate that about Java
01:18 <****> productivity plumets and it's no fun
01:19 <****> erm, plummits?
01:19 <****> plummets?
01:19 <****> dang, however you spell that word
01:19 <****> GumbyBRAIN: eat my spagehtti
01:19 <****> My point, looks like i'm sshing to a country that has been a bug in my script and i don't really want to copy it.
01:19 <****> /ignore GumbyBRAIN
01:20 <****> java servlets does have it's advantages though. productivity issues aside
01:20 <****> I love Web starts to impress my java teachers
01:20 <****> bennymack: yea lots of people do even though he makes very little noise
01:20 <****> s/Web starts/Web Start/
01:20 <****> it is advantages
01:21 <****> I wish perl had decent thread support
01:22 <****> that and less expensive sub/method calls are all I really want
01:22 <****> Click on a link, and a window pops up -- that is so much cooler than an applet...and it autoupdates itself! Java Web start is my hero.
01:22 <****> Actually applets can open windows too...
01:22 <****> that's an odd hero
01:23 <****> awesomess3: I like the way they've pulled the self-extracting archive trick with webstart.
01:23 <****> rmah, yeah you aren't gonna get any of that... just lots of bloat and feature implementations that aren't really going to make people jump up from their chairs and do perl :p
01:23 <****> I'd settle for cheaper sub calls.
01:23 * rmah weeps
01:23 <****> awesomess3: you can distribute a file that will run with a click on windows, and is still runnable by "javaws" elsewhere
01:23 * hobbs goeth home
01:23 <****> rmah: why do youneed threads? if you don't know why, then you probably don't need them
01:24 <****> bennymac: I know why
01:24 <****> calling a sub ref is faster than a do block that localizes the stack variable. it's the GV lookup that's slow.
01:24 <****> no offense boy, but I've been developing software professionally for going on 18 years now
01:24 <****> I know what I need and what I don't
01:25 <****> I don't care why sub calls are slow, and I don't care what's slower.
01:25 <****> dngor: you're smart. you should fix those slow sub calls
01:25 <****> hobbs: precisely! -- but now that we can use Web forms and Ajax...it might be pretty useless I suppose. But with the offline `javaws` is great. The problem is that the Java Runtime has to load up for some tiny application, and that's just too much memory disappearing.
01:25 <****> rmah: I'll get right on it. You should hold your breath.
01:25 <****> faggot =~ s/|anyone who is against rockrs//
01:26 <****> literal faggot
01:26 <****> :-(
01:26 <****> whoops, wrong tab, sorry guys
01:26 <****> haha
01:26 <****> trying to delete an entry in an infobot :P
01:26 * shaldannon smacks jercos
01:26 <****> fail
01:26 <****> rmah: i'm dying to here why you need threads
01:27 <****> next time make it a user/host/password connection
01:27 <****> *better* threads
01:27 * shaldannon hands bennymack a "hear"
01:27 <****> Perl needs better threads. Who gives a truck about rmah?
01:27 <****> bennymack: for some applications, large amounts of shared data exists that are in a structure that is not easy to map into streams (for example, graphs)
01:28 <****> access to the data by each flow of control may be seemingly random in nature
01:28 <****> in such circumstances, threads are beneficial
01:28 <****> does git use threads?
01:28 <****> there are other scenarios where threads are more of a fit that multiple processes
01:28 <****> there are scenarios where multiple processes are better than threads
01:28 <****> it's one of the more recent examples of a program that uses graphs that I can think of
01:28 <****> in the end, it all "depends"
01:29 <****> I don't really care about threads in the traditional sense
01:29 <****> bennymac: I suggest you read a book by Lau called "Concurrent Programming with Java"
01:29 <****> it's very very good. uses java as the example language but the concepts apply to any language.
01:29 <****> Not sure how git applies other than as a straw man.
01:30 <****> what I want is a programming language with compiler that can detect it is on a quad-core box and take advantage of it
01:30 <****> without me having to worry about it
01:30 <****> rmah: I would think that java has a decent thread implementation. Doug Lea was one of my professors.
01:30 <****> Limbic_Region: I'm not really sure that's possible for the general case
01:30 <****> bennymac: it's ok I guess
01:30 <****> Limbic_Region: Wouldn't that more realistically be the purview of the OS, rather than the compiler?
01:30 <****> rmah - it isn't with most languages today
01:30 <****> i.e. it seems to work
01:30 <****> apeiron - not really, not what I am thinking
01:30 <****> Ah.
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